Jay Allen's Blog

Who published the reportfirst and if it is true great job

http://jrichter.newsvine.com/_news/2008/10/16/2006917-joe-the-plumber-in-law-to-charles-keating-of-the-mccain-sl-scandal

Jay even if it is true the cousinof an In Law does not mean much and we know the NY Times is on the Obama payroll anyway

Jay - in many areas, employees of a company don't need a license, the license is held by the company, whether plumbing, electrical, etc. And right now the Keating connection appears to be something concocted on the internet, unless you have some real evidence.

Well he dared to question the messiah and so of course the Dem spin machine has swung into action to begin the character assasination of this man who asked a question! You should be very scared for the future because this is what will happen to you if you question.

If there is 6 degrees of separation, then I am only 5 people away from knowing you Jay. Maybe you can invite me to your next BBQ.

I think I finally figured it out. (That's a scary thought. My small brain figuring something out)

Jay I think I figured something out when I was eating dinner. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I mean no disrespect, there is no sarcasm meant.

I think you believe that Obama as a person will make the best President. He is better educated, he seems very Presidential, he speaks well, and he has this aura (sp?) around him that instills confidence. I don't see you writing as many blogs on the issues he supports. It's more about him as a person, and the lack of credentials on the Republican ticket.

Myself, I think I look at things differently. I'm an issue guy. If I agree with someone on the issues and I can trust them, then I can overlook education, speaking ability, even experience. I wish we had an Obama persona that was a Libertarian. I would be in heaven. Talk about change. That would mess with Washington and make some serious change. BARACK PAUL for President.

Just a thought I had. Didn't mean to hijack your post.  

That may be the funniest thing I have read in a long time...  The guy bought a house in a neighborhood a few years ago (not disputed) and went to work as an apprentice in a plumbing/HVAC contractor... also a few years ago, so that if Obama happened to campaign in his neighborhood he could hit him with a tax question. 

If your assertions are not BS, we need to get McCain in the Oval office because he has a wicked crystal ball...  That vast right wing conspiracy is getting bigger all of the time.

But the Secret Service IS denying that anyone in a Palin crowd shouted anything about killing or lynching Obama.  They can't find anyone that heard it, none of their agents heard it... just one reporter that has shown a lot of support for Obama.

Link.

A plumber making $250K a year should be kissing the ground in Ohio, America where he lives because only in this great country could a plumber make that kind of money. He should shut up and pay his taxes. Oh he only makes $40,000. He got his "15 minutes" and so did McCain. Once again McCain's poor judgment.

McCain and Palin are pathetic caricatures and they have made caricatures of what they think average Americans are. Unfortunately they are clueless.

Jay -

In answer to your question, no. It Shan't change a thing - I'll continue to oppose Socialism at every turn.

And if there's any truth to the allegation here, I suspect Karl Rove may have a nice fat bonus check coming his way.

Jay - First of all dear old Joe the plumber isn't a plumber. As you stated neither he nor the man he works for is licensed as a plumber in the area in which they serve. In addition dear old Joe owes money in back taxes. How is it that someone who owes back taxes gets the right to complain about paying his fair share. If I believed in conspiracy theories like some who have posted here i would swear that dear old Joe was a plant that backfired when someone did some checking!

John. Jay, and other Libs,

What has has folks so fired up is not the question or who asked it.  What has caused such a stir is the answer.

Senator Obama believes that it is better to "Spread the Wealth".  His words.

If you believe in re distribution  then maybe Obama is your choice.

I do not believe in redistribution.  Obama is NOT my choice!

Bob - Obama is proposing that the top income bracket go back up by 3% to the level it used to be before Voodoo economics. Why are you publi-cons so upset?

Bob, you are reading far too much into the Obama's wealth statement. Are you basically suggesting that under an Obama administration, John McCain will be forced to give away a half dozen of his homes to crackheads? Perhaps Karl Marx would do this, but not Barack Obama.

Since you presented an Obama quote, let's look at few quotes from John McCain...

• 1/3/08 - The number of years to keep US troops in Iraq - "Make it a hundred...That would be fine with me."
  
• 8/20/08 - On the number of homes he owns - "I think -- I'll have my staff get to you. It's condominiums where -- I'll have them get to you."
  
• 9/15/08 - On the economy - "The fundamentals of our economy are strong."
  
• 9/24/08 - And my personal favorite - "Tomorrow morning, I will suspend my campaign and return to Washington."

 John -

You've omitted a couple of key facts.  First, check this video of Obama's exchange with "Joe the Plumber" - uncut version - Obama clearly uses the word, "REVENUE", as opposed to income, when referring to his $250,000 dividing line.  Check that video, about 39 seconds into it - he clearly says, "If your revenue is above 250..."

Obama needs to be hammered on this for clarification - I'm sure the typical voter just hears, "$250,000", and thinks, "Yep, that's rich!", having no idea that in business and accounting circles, REVENUE = GROSS INCOME.  There have to be millions of small businesses out there whose gross is well over $250,000, but whose net, or personal income to the owner(s) is far, far less - like 10%, or 20% of gross.  He needs to be pressed for more info on his plans!

Secondly, you left out the fact that Obama's plan removes the present ceiling on Social Security and Medicare taxes.  That's an immediate hit of 7.65%, or 15.3% for the self employed, on all income above the present ceiling of $102,000.

America just can't afford Obama - not now.

Sorry, but Obama is a lot closer to a Marxist than you would be willing to admit.  At the very least, he is a Socialist. 

Of course, what he isn't is someone that believes in telling any more truth than the bare minimum...

Joe, why do people get so nasty when it comes to politics and religion? Every thinks their a expert, it is quite sad but a great blog!

  Featured!

This is all pretty funny - Joe the plumber only asked a question - it was Obama's answer that caused all the stir - spread the wealth- ie; socialism, welfare state.  If only the mainstream press had "vetted" obama and ayers as much as they've vetted Joe, and ordinary citizen who dared to asked a question when obama knocked on his door - we might be somewhere. I've heard of attacking the messenger, but in this case, the messenger is obama! Joe is irrelevent, the answer to the question is not.

Susan, the issue on this post is whether this guy (Joe) is related/affiliated with Charles Keating. It seems strange that this man asked Obama specifically about a $280k plumbing business when he doesn't possess a plumber's license. This guy appears to be one of two things - a simple con artist or a con artist affiliated with Keating - either way, it was John McCain that placed "Joe" on a pedestal, not Obama.

Jay:

  The question isn't whether Joe is "affiliated"  (did you mean related to?)with Charles Keating.  The question is whether Obama is more qualified than Mccain to lead the country.  With attribution to Ted Baker, the rest is "just noise". 

Jay - that's quite a stretch, but again, it doesn't matter. Obama and his cronies can mock and destroy this man's life all they want - it doesn't change Obama's answer to a question that anyone could have asked him. Trying to shift the discussion to the personal life of Joe or these conspiracy theories is just a means to change the subject to distract people from how obama answered the question.

Let me add to your conspiracy - did you know he at one time actually lived in Alaska?????????????

Say it ain't so Joe! He was stationed there in the early 90's while serving in the army! OMG! Keating and Sarah!!!

What should concern even the most ardent Obama supporter is the obvious consequence of dissing the One...Fairness Doctrine coming next...Obama, Nancy and Harry all support it.

McCain mentioned Joe Wurzelbacher 22 times. Anything or anyone referenced 22 times in a 90 minute period is not "just noise".

Joe is actually his middle name - Sam is his first - at least we can use his middle name....

Hello again Jay:

   With all due respect, I believe Mccain's intention was to use Joe as an example of why Obama is not qualified to lead the country (I can only speculate since I cannot read minds of course).  "Joe" asked Obama a question, and Obama's  answer has thrust Joe into the limelight. 

   However, Joe's background has no bearing on the qualifications of Obama or Mccain: he is being used by both Mccain and Obama.   By Mccain to illustrate a point, and by Obama to defend himself from what many perceive to be a flubbed answer. 

   Joe is not running for President though: Obama and Mccain are.  If Obama or his  followers do not like Joe, don't knock on his door. 

Tom, you've made some good points, but in terms of not liking Joe... I don't like anyone that doesn't pay their taxes.

And I can't read minds either, but I would speculate that McCain wanted to use Joe to reach blue collar, white men (a huge demographic that has been shifting towards Obama). It really didn't have much to do with business owners - there are many more voters that work as employees than employers.

The irony is McCain/Palin with their populist rhetoric is selling fantasy. The majority of people attending their rallies have no college education and earn less than $50,000 including Joe six pack and Joe the plumber.  McCain is perpetuating a fantasy that one day these ordinary Joe's will own Roter Router or become CEO's of Enron so they should be pro corporate tax cuts and pro tax incentives to corporations that  outsource their jobs overseas. McCain Palin is trying to portray Obama as robbing Peter to pay Paul. They think they're Peter they are fantasizing.

Jay - to answer your original question... Not really.  CERTAINLY not going to endear me to your candidate.

Engaging in the politics of personal destruction... against a private citizen who had the gall to ask a legitimate question of a man you practically worship... isn't likely to entice me to lean in the direction of those who have engaged in this campaign to destroy the life of the questioner.

Where's your compassion?  Where's your concern for Joe's civil rights?  Privacy?  Tolerance for Joe's concerns?

None shown in your responses so far here.

All you've succeeded in doing is reinforcing the belief that Obama is about punishing those who aspire to climb higher.  Not only is Joe to be punished financially (if Obama is elected), but he's to be punished now for daring to ask a question and having a less-than-perfect background.

David, the liberal media and hollywood elite might pay Joe for his story, make it into a TV movie - and Joe might then have enough money to start his business.

It's routine for newspapers in many cities to publish the names those who owe back taxes (just like Joe). Had McCain not mentioned Joe 22 times, this would have never become an issue.

Furthermore, nobody dragged Joe out of his home - if you're concerned about privacy, why ask a question to a presidential candidate in front of cameras? AND why would you conduct more interviews the day after the debate? This man is not concerned about his privacy - so why are you?

Mitchell, describing it as "fantasy" sums it up! Millions of people including myself would love to be in a situation of being a multimillionaire and worrying about Obama's tax plan.

Hi Jay. Now the Republicans would have done the same thing if the situation was reversed and yet they have the nerve (big surprise) to say that the issue here is that someone questioned Obama. Please!! Some people on here just get more and more ridiculous with their blind reasoning.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?em

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_el_pr/joe_the_plumber

I am still trying to figure out how Joe knew to get a house in THAT neighborhood so that he would have the opportunity to be a plant for the McCain campaign...  Seriously... 

That is demented and shows some fear on the part of those that are pushing this "theory".

Jay - once again, you're proving that you have no tolerance, no compassion, no concern for privacy, nor civil rights... and NO INTEREST IN THE REAL ISSUE (which is OBAMA's ANSWER to Joe the Plumber's question.)

You're unconcerned with the message ("spread the wealth around") and you've even dodged crucifying your messenger (Your Savior - Obama), instead you continue to pursue a personal attack on a private individual who asked a legitimate question.  And you're trying to make Joe the Plumber's personal relationships and situation into the issue.

By demonsstrating such lack of tolerance, compassion, and concern for privacy & civil rights, you're only persuading those who are concerned about Obama's answer of the lack of integrity in your position.

Jay...."I don't like anyone who doesn't pay their taxes."

John G..... "Bob - Obama is proposing that the top income bracket go back up by 3% to the level it used to be before Voodoo economics. Why are you publi-cons so upset?"

I guess Jay, and John would be the British.

And Lane, David, Jeff, Susan, Bob and myself would be the Founding Fathers.

Republicans too far right for Colin Powell, Sarah Palin unqualified. Endorses Barak Obama

Mitchell.. If you look back a few years, Powell was between the parties... both were courting him.  He goes where he finds the best deal. 

I guess I would prefer that Palin be unqualified than Obama...

Lane, Powell is from NY and has always been a moderate liberal Republican. I would prefer the smarter one.

Mitchell - A few years ago he was being courted by both parties, and at one point had said he would RUN with the right Democrat.  I do think he is a centrist, and probably leans Republican.  That doesn't mean he isn't wrong... 

But, back to the point of this post...

If the media spent as much time looking at the influences on Obama as they have spent on Joe the Plumber, Obama probably wouldn't have made it out of the primaries... and certainly wouldn't be leading the polls for the general election.

Lane - If John McCain spent any time coming up with a plan to correct the mess this country is in instead of just attacking Barack Obama then he might be leading the polls.

Carl - Telling the grandson of an Irish immigrant that he is british is pretty funny and shows that you don't have a clue on history. As far as you being represenative of the founding fathers, wow what a delusion.

Jay, You can post all the unfound rumors you want, and it won't sway me.

Bob, have you been swayed against Obama by "unfound rumors" about ACORN and Ayers?

I thought is was pretty funny too. John.

John, McCain HAS a plan... and most importantly, it doesn't involve raising taxes on the people that actually create jobs. 

Lane, I was a Hillary Clinton supporter. I think she's a better candidate than both Obama or McCain. But lets not forget Obama won the democrat primary. He beat the Clinton machine. I actually thought at one time McCain would be the only Republican that could win this election. But he went wrong, he went too far to the right. He picked the wrong running mate.

Republicans love to blame the media...It's been a popular Republican strategy since Nixon. "they won't have me to kick around anymore"  famous last words.  So what's your point. Joe the plumber is a stupid distraction that proves McCain is out of touch with reality and doesn't think before he acts. McCain will raise taxes:

"Read my Lips"

Trickle down economics, supply side economics voodoo economics what ever you want to call it it only creates huge deficits and does not neccessarily create jobs.  Lets keep on spending and lowering taxes. A 3 year old is smart enough to know better than that. 8 years in the wrong direction, I'll take a chance on the new guy. I'm not voting my wallet, I'm voting for the direction our country should be taking. I'm voting out the incumbent Bush/McCain.

Mitchell... 

So, you think that raising taxes and spending more is the way out?  EVERY TIME TAXES GO UP, THE ECONOMY GOES DOWN!  We are facing the possibility of a recession... Raising taxes on ANYONE, especially those that are most likely to create jobs is a stupid plan.  And if the goal is to balance the budget, adding $1trillion is also a stupid idea. 

And how is Joe the Plumber, and the FACT that Obama wants to take money from people that earn it in order to give it to people that don't earn it a distraction?  Or is it just a distraction from Biden's statement that Obama WILL draw a created crisis... to which Biden also said Obama would not respond well to...

Lane - There is a negative correlation between taxes and the economy,

When President Bill Clinton raised taxes in 1993, the unemployment rate dropped, from 6.9 to 6.1 percent, and kept falling each of the next seven years. When President Bush cut taxes in 2001, the unemployment rate rose, from 4.7 to 5.8 percent, then drifted to 6 percent last year when taxes were cut again.

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It has become conventional wisdom in Washington that rising tax burdens crush labor markets. Bush castigated his political opponents last week for "that old policy of tax and spend" that would be "the enemy of job creation."

Yet an examination of historical tax levels and unemployment rates reveals no obvious correlation.

"The fact of the matter is, we have much higher rates of employment today than we did in 1954, but our level of taxation is considerably higher," said Gary Burtless, a labor economist at the Brookings Institution. "You simply can't look at total taxation to find employment levels."

Just ran across this, I got to say this is a silly blog but it sure has generated lots of debate.  Couldn't resist.

The question "Joe the Plummer" should of asked  Mr. Obama's was concerning his support of the Employee Free Choice Act,which sadly few are paying attention too.  I am surprised that more Rainers have not brought this up. 

As a business owner do we really want things to go in this direction.  This act forces union recognition without elections and employment contracts through mandatory arbitration after.  Who wants to deal with that nightmare?

As for calling Joe's wish to own his own business someday a "fantasy" I guess you could say that's true if Mr. Obama's direction is followed.  

Finally it is really sad that those who do not agree with Mr. Obama or his supporters are constantly being described as "uneducated" or dumb or stupid.  The silence is deafening when people are asked what Mr. Obama's policies and beliefs really are, oh I forgot.....Change....change this change that.

Lane, I don't spend money that I don't have, no credit card debt. The last 8 years the administration has been spending like a drunken sailor while at the same time reducing it's revenue. 

I always bring in enough revenue in my business to pay for things I want to buy otherwise I don't buy them. We need to cut spending and increase revenue. Where else does revenue come from besides taxes. I know when i need more revenue I have to make another sale.

Joe the plumber is a distraction because he barely makes $40,000. He will benefit from Obama's tax cuts. What is he whining about, no one is raising his taxes. he doesn't even pay his State taxes.

During the Clinton years the economy grew and he turned a deficit  into a surplus. Bush pissed it away. It's called fiscal resposibility, Clinton had it Bush did not

We are already in a recession.

Oddly, here is a chart showing revenues after the Reagan tax cuts.  In constant dollars, in 8 of the next 10 years revenues went up. 

Now in the case of the Clinton tax increases...  Please note that the increase in revenue is COMPLETELY after the GOP took over Congress during the GOP Revolution. 

And over course then there was the Internet Stock crash and the Clinton Recession... 9/11...  and yet, after the cuts took full swing, the revenues were on the way up until the current economic issues (oddly, after the Democrats took control of the house and Senate again).  

But, look at the changes and what they wrought.  Carter... big jumps in taxes led to a serious downturn in the economy.  Clinton increased taxes more than any other President...  But what he also did was set the stage for the housing bubble with the CRA...  ACORN... 

So... revenue didn't grow with the tax cuts?  Obama has that wrong... and about a million other things.