Yesterday, Israel bombed the United Nations Relief and Works Agency in Gaza. This and other recent attacks have made Israel appear as the world's undisputed biggest bully.
The present conflict in the Middle East makes me wonder...
- What would Israel's military look like without billions of US dollars?
- How aggressive would Israel be without billions of US dollars?
- Would other Middle Eastern countries view Israel with as much disdain without billions of US dollars?
- Would other Middle Eastern countries view the US with as much disdain if we didn't send billions of dollars to Israel?
For good or bad, the United States has dictated which countries have power and authority in the Middle East for more than a generation. Iraq defeated Iran with American bombs and chemicals. Israel is a dominate country solely because of American military and financial contributions. So, odds are... the Palestinians would be claiming the last bit of Israeli land today, if the United States had been sending them the same money and military armament that's been sent to Israel.
The current Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the global economic meltdown are two reasons for the United States to become a bit more self-centered. What are your thoughts?
Best regards,
Jay
Jay Allen
MovieVoice
jay@movievoice.net
Jay, one critical factor that you didn't mention is the religious undertones and overtones of the issue. Isreal is a MAJOR player in the Christian Holy Bible, and according to that 'book' Isreal is to be treated as Holy Land. Personally, I agree with you that the good ole USA should reconsider our hard core, carte blanche support of that little country ~ but good luck in getting the hard core right wing to agree!
Jan: My thoughts are that you are way off base here. If Israel does not continue to exist, and continue it's position of strength in the Middle East... that area would turn into total chaos. It would make the situation that is going on right now... look like a kindergarden recess.
If New Jersey started shelling New York City with rocket attacks and it went on for years how long should New York tolerate this behaviour before retaliating?
If New Jersey's rockets were launched into areas where civilians lived from in front of schools, churches and daycare facilities inside New Jersey and New York concerened about civillian casulaties called ahead to warn the occupants to evacuate before retaliating, would New York be considered a bully?
If the political leaders of New Jersey encouraged the mass killing of citizens of New York would the citizens of New York be wrong to protect themsleves?
This is not a simple problem as you suggest with one Bully. There is a culture that loves death versus a culture that loves life and these are the words from the leaders of Hamas!
Scott: I totally agree with you. Even Barack Obama has said... if anyone was firing rockets into your back yard... sooner or later you would come in and do what you needed to do to make it stop. But... the Palestinians need to wake up and see that Hamas is NOT in their best interest.
I really think that we need to demand the entire story from the major media outlets instead of what they want us to hear, then it would be much easier to assess blame in most of these conflicts. I don't know all of the details of this action, nor the details about the other actions in the World, we only get the media's version of it. The choose the bad guy and good guy roles in all of the stories out there. While that may sound paranoid, I am not trying to be, I am only trying to be honest with you and myself. I agree with some of the comments posted, how much was Israel supposed to take without responding? What happens in the Middle East if Israel isn't there? It is easy to sit back and play arm chair quarterback, but the truth of that is we're not the ones getting hit by blitzing linebackers. So sometimes, maybe we should just let things shake out or wait until we have the entire picture before we jump to conclusions.
I have really lost all respect for Israel and believe that as a 'nation' or 'country' they have the poorest diplomacy in the world. Worse then N. Korea or even Somalia. One would expect more from a 'civilized' nation.
Words have meaning.
Actions have consequences.
Robert: You must be an incredible student of worldwide current events, and worldwide diplomacy to be able to make that statement. Worse than North Korea, huh ? And how much of this can you back up ? I think Israel is an incredible country just for the fact that they have even managed to exist in the middle of such a hostile environment.
I,ll probably never get to say this again but "I completly agree with Karen" I might just like to add Israel is an important ally o have in a volatile part of the world. i for one am glad that we possess the convictions to stand side by side with our allies.
Jay - Israel would not exist today without that aid from the U.S., and, for a long time, the French and British. Perhaps you should read the history and see how many times they came close to not existing because of attacks, incursions, etc from the various countries surrounding them.
Another one of your liberal rantings. Israel has a right to exist. And America has given billions to other countries as well. israel did not send rockets over until Hamas sent those over on civilian cities and towns. I don't hear you saying anything about Hamas breaking the cease fire.
I am tired of liberal revisionist historians.
It may work with people who do not know history, but for the ones who actually read and study history, your liberal mind cannot change facts.
"I don't hear you saying anything about Hamas breaking the cease fire." Nicholas, I didn't say anything about that because it's not true.
Jay,
Israel is just trying to protect itself. If someone came to your house wouldn't you protect your family. The bullys are the ones shooting rockets into Israel.
This Sez it all...
What happens when a fly falls into a coffee cup?
The Italian - throws the cup, breaks it, and walks away in a fit of rage.
The German - carefully washes the cup, sterilizes it and makes a new cup of coffee.
The Frenchman - takes out the fly, and drinks the coffee.
The Chinese - eats the fly and throws away the coffee.
The Russian - Drinks the coffee with the fly, since it was extra with no charge.
The Israeli - sells the coffee to the Frenchman, the fly to the Chinese, drinks tea and uses the extra money to invent a device that prevents flies from falling into coffee.
The Palestinian - blames the Israeli for the fly falling in his coffee, protests the act of aggression to the UN, takes a loan from the European Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives and then blows up the coffee house where the Italian, the Frenchman, the Chinese, the German and the Russian are all trying to explain to the Israeli that he should give away his cup of tea to the Palestinian.
I agree with much of what you said. I do agree that America should support Israel's self defense. History has proven that many countries in the Middle East would do away with Israel if it did not have an adequate defense. $3 billion plus additional military aid goes way beyond adequate though.
I do not belive that we should be dictating to any county how to manage it's affairs, and I wouldn't dare tell Israel how to manage it's, I would scale way back on our financial and military support for them though as they do not need it. If they can bully the way they have, they do not need us to help them.
I agree that our unyielding support for Israel has garnered us many enemies in the region and has benefited us little.
I agree that we should become a little more isolationistic.
Jay ~ Please, keep you liberal articles from me. Bias coverage at best. Hamas sent the rockets over to Israel. Over 3000 in ten years of skirmishes, if 3000 rockets came over from Mexico, would we think twice about removing the danger?
One sided anti Israeli sentiments from you at best.
And now you have CF backing you. Go figure.
Jay - The incident in the link you provided was a raid on a tunnel that was being constructed to make raids on the Israeli. The tunnel was not going to Disneyland, it was going to Israel. The question about this incident is who was the aggressor first? The ones who raided the tunnel or the ones who were building the tunnel.
There are countries in the Mideast that have learned it is more productive to work with the Israelis than to fight them. Egypt and Jordan come to mind.
I have worked and trained with the Israeli Defense Force. Their military philosophy is as the name hints at - defense.
Israel has a right to exist. However, is it necessary for Israel to kill hundreds of children (1/3 of the 1000+ dead in Gaza are children)?
Jay - a quick look at the map will show that Israel is not the world's biggest anything.
They have followed a policy of aggressive self-defense since 1948 out of necessity. That policy is their response to the military and terrorist threats that their civilian polulation has faced every day since 1948 - and the reason that you can still complain about them in 2009.
Nicholas: That is kind of an insult to me... that this guy is a "liberal." I don't know anyone who could come up with such a goofy conclusion as Jay is coming up with. If he is a liberal... I recommend him for disbarment. This guy isn't just indulging in "revisionist history"... he is totally just making stuff up. Besides... I am not a liberal... I am a "moderate progressive"... LOL I am on your side with this one.
Hugh: I am sure we agree on more things than this... at least we can listen to each other's points of view. Take care...
Jay, I think Ted may have been referring to this map. Do you honestly believe Israel was or is the aggressor? They're surrounded by all these countries who want to destroy and wipe Israel off the map!
There are no black and whites in this equation. Either you believe Israel has a right to exist or you don't. If you do, then you must agree that our contributions to their coffers are important in the extreme. Even if you don't think they have a right to exist, you must agree that it is of the utmost importance to have a strong ally in the region.
Jay - my thoughts are the answer is yes to the last two questions. Those guys have been fighting long before the US was a country. And Randy is right about the religious undertones. Whether we support Israel or not, they hate us, too. The Middle East countries that disdain us and Israel are intolerant of freedom.
Update: Israel has announced a unilateral ceasefire, but this discussion is still relevant because of the never ending conflicts in the Middle East.
My last comment was on the disturbing statistic about Israel's murder of Palestinian children. Why has no one defended Israel's persistent attack on children?
Ted, you make a good point, but any map will show that Iraq is much smaller than the United States. So, if a country's relative size is relevant, why did we invade Iraq, a smaller country.
Karen, my conclusion is not "goofy". As an American (I am biased towards the success of my country), I believe that of all countries, my country has the most right to exist. American taxpayers send, by some estimates, more than $5 billion per year to Israel. Why do we continue to "bailout" Israel? Why not claim Israel as an American state?
Pacita, most of the countries on your map are completely dysfunctional and pose no threat to Israel or any other country.
Israel, Israel has the right to exist, but the United States is broke. We cannot afford to pump billions into Israel, when we're already pumping billions into Iraq.
Jay: You stated that America has the MOST right to exist out of all the countries. That makes no sense what so ever. Canada has no right to exist ? Or a lesser right ? France, England, Belgium, Spain, England... all of them have a lesser "right" to exist ? Ummm... as the saying goes... Who died and made you boss ? Or... who made YOU God ?
And now to your comment to Pacita... you can rule on which countries are "dysfunctional ?" How pompous of you ? Have you been to any of these countries ? Do you have an advanced degree in Political Science, Economics, History, or in anything ? Ok... I take it back. Your conclusion is not "goofy"... it is tragically bizarre.
Karen, so if Sudan is not dysfunctional, how would you describe it?
Jay: Sudan ? What in the world does Sudan have to do with anything going on involving the Middle East's ongoing crises. So maybe Peoria, Illinois may also be a tad dysfunctional... what does that have to do with the major players? Hon... you're just grasping at straws now. Go study a bit... come back in a month or two, and we can talk. Have a great Sunday.
Karen Anne ~ We don't agree much on American politics, but we sure agree on world politics. Thank you for your stance for truth about world history and foreign policy.
Jay - Here is the reality of the children that have been killed.
If I were a Palestinians, I would turn my anger toward Hamas. But Hamas has for year not only terrorized Israel; but their own people. Now that is a playground bully.
Brian ~ Now you can't speak truth to liberals, they have liberal glasses of hatred towards Israel and blaming them for what Hezbollah and Hamas actually does, and then hides in mosques and school houses.
@ Nicholas: Please do not group "liberals" all together... just as I should not group conservatives together. I back Israel 100%. I always have. Have a great day !
If I were a Palestinian... I would really be full-force against Hamas. They are blatantly working against the needs and welfare of their own people.
Karen I would say moderates from both sides of the aisle back Israel it is only the complete loons form either side that can't see the writing on the wall.
Jay- What a great blog with some great comments, you sure know how to hook them. As for sending all this money to Israel because it's the Holy Land, I could care less. There is Holy Land all over the world and you don't see the USA sending these other counties Billions of dollars.
The United States government will never tell the people really why we send all this money to them. And I really don't think we should.
Great post and featured at: EXPRESS WITH WORDS AT ACTIVERAIN
Jay --- think again of 9/11 or the attack on the USS Cole or the U.S. Embassy. Where were those terrorists from? Do you honestly think people from these "dysfunctional" countries pose no threat?
Are you deliberately stoking dissent and pushing people's buttons by this blog?
Jay, Israel is not the world's biggest bully, we are. We enable many countries to bully others by supplying arms, money, and support. Israel is the world's second biggest bully. Any country who would tell a people to take refuge in a particluar spot, then bomb said spot, are not only bullies but murderes.
Jay,
You must be losing your mind. Israel, a bully? If anyone sent one rocket into your town, you would expect us to respond. Right? They are a good example to others on how to treat bullies!
Terry: I agree with you in that the United States is a bully, but there are others, too... like dear Mr Putin. But... I cannot at all agree that Israel is a part of your group of bullies. If they were bullies.... they would have done a lot more. They could have, but they chose not to. They are pulling out of Gaza after showing Hamas what they could do if pushed far enough. I would think if Hamas did not somehow get the hint and choose to live side-by-side with Israel... they may end up getting pushed into the sea.
What I would really like to see is for Israel to force a "land trade" with Gaza, or negotiate a "land trade" with Egypt, and end up with about a one kilometer strip of land between the south of Gaza and Egypt... and take care of the tunnel problem once and for all. It is very difficult to shoot rockets into Israel if you do not have them in the first place.
Karen - There is an Organization in place in the Siani called the Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) who were established in the early 1980. The mission of the MFO is to supervise the implementation of the security provisions of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty of Peace and employ best efforts to prevent any violation of its terms. The MFOs authority since the mid 90s has been reduced and their numbers are much smaller; but this group has been the most successful peace keepers in history.
Sidenote: This is not a UN organization maybe that is one reason for their success.
Jay- Maybe you will get your wish and obama will cut off aid and support to Israel and the terrorists will love us and stop attacking Israel. We already know obama has experience talking with terrorists like William Ayres
Israel has a place and a purpose. If not taking"crap" is being a bully - guess I agree with you a bit!
Jay,
Israel has been under attack since 1948. They have never lost a war despite being amazingly overmatched in land and population. They also remain the only western-friendly established democracy in the Middle East. They would likely disappear beneath hordes or UN sanctions were it not for US support.
How many wars can Israel afford to lose? The answer, as you may know, is zero.
Oh Larry: Your comment is just so "cute." Somehow you need to get yourself off of that worn-out mindset of yours. Perhaps you might try therapy. Or... you just might open your eyes. Sounds like either one might help. William Ayers was forty years ago. Sheesh.
@ J. Phillip: All israel has to do is, as you said, lose ONE war... and maybe then these folks who accuse them of being "bullies" can see what real bullies are like when Hamas and friends overrun all of Israel. That would not only be a tragedy... it would result in chaos.
No Israel is not the worlds biggest bully, but he is pretty big. Just read some of his comments on AR.
Karen- I am very impressed with your comments on this post. You know your world history and world events well. Thank you for expressing that Israel has a right to exist. They do.
Jay- Self defense is Israel's right. Whenever there is a war, there is callatoral damage. That is war. If Hamas was not hiding their rockets inside of hospitals and schools and using children as human shields perhaps the casualties would be much less. It is Palestinians who need to kick Hamas out. And then too, Israel calls them up and warns the kids and adults, get out, we are going to return fire. WOW, I don't know any terrorists who do that!
This goes deeper than people not wanting Israel to exist. Anti Semitism is growing stronger and now we have the holocoust deniers trying to erase that part of history that is never to be forgotten in order to advance their anti semitism agenda. I live in a county where over 40% of the population is Jewish. We have the third largest Jewish population in the world, Israel is 1 and New York is 2. I see and meet holocoust survivors as well as many Israelites.My mother took me to remains of gas chambers in Germany and told me the stories. She was not Jewish. Since I am a Christian my Savior was a Jew. Since I am a Christian I believe that we all came from the 12 tribes of Israel. Our allegience to Israel goes much deeper than what we see on the surface. Just as I will not stand for racism against blacks, I also will not stand for racism against Jews. Katerina